This is very Platonic. Did the Confucianists have any way to learn about the Greeks? I love the parallels between eastern philosophy and Platonism. Way to go, Dr. Pattberg!
Many people misread Dr. Pattberg’s position. He never argued for finding better translations of Chinese concepts. Instead, he asserted that they are impossible to translate, equating translation with linguistic imperialism.
Mao believed 'everyone should do their fair share of the work' when millions of people were forced out of their homes and away from loved ones to work on the land. This was actually… very creative!
They are teaching the young in china how we added a thousand years to history in the west by making the I into a one 1 when the letters I and j were added to the alphabet in 1542 when the letter I stood for isheua the work of the Russian Formeko the phantom time hypothesis, And about Tartaria and how it fell and how Peter the great of Russia changed the year from 7207 to 1700 , In the leaked speech of general Chi Hoating he lays out their great leap out from a country that is poisoned by pollution not to Taiwan but Australia, Canada and New Zealand total population of all 3 countries 70 million, with the western military dropping like flies we could well be deleted from history very soon
Good morning, George! I got myself ready for the day with fruit loaf and coffee and phantom time reading lists (D D Hoffman, Chris Langan, and myself, J J Goldstein of course.) Thanks, and All the best! T
I walked into a weeing contest between the 3 letter agencies of the east and west one night doctor unknowingly and got treated to a 12 minute to video of their plans and how badly the Chinese were treated in America while building the railroad, And the way they were treated by the British in the opium wars all with accompanying photographs of these horrors, I understand why the election was taken from trump as prepare for war and their build up of the military with lines of super soldiers like the clone army in star wars but more menacing to view , Never let the swear word take you alive doctor
Do you think it is possible that Germany and the EU in form of NATO coalition is going to fight in the Taiwan Straits any time soon? German troops in Northern Afghanistan once stared down Chinese border troops. That was in 2003 at Hindukutsch. No media reported it. It was too clownish.
Colonialism isn't pretty and the missionaries are not here to help. That seems to be takeaway from this story. I wonder if our new masters are taking away the proper names in America too, once this shitshow is over. I mean, come on. They call themselves Jews and Philosophers in Jamestown. The whole Latin New World mundus narrative by Vespucci was BS.
Best answer I ever got, from a Harvard Professor (of Dutch origin): "Well, they can call Confucius whatever they like!" He was right, and I was... baffled to no end. All theories on names, Frege, Mill, Sears, Wittgenstein... go out of the window with an attitude or colonial mindset. In this book, I describe some of the most outrages translation of "shengren" by some really famous yet very exccentric European fellows that had it all planned out and even sexually charged... to deny China her true names and stuff her up with the Europeanthing. BLAH! T
Yes, once they were in, they couldn't be expelled. That said, there were good missionaries and bad missionaries. Many turned sinophile and dressed in Confucian gaunts and mimiced the travelling educators. Others were more entrepreneurial, hustled for patronage from the West, and mingled with the foreign offices and the diplomats (premodern spies). Frankly, China didn't know what was going on, and had no way of knowing what was going on back in the West. All the information that the missionaries gathered and sent back home... were duely processed into China Studies (Sinology, in Europe), and whatever China meant was now controlled and written from the remove, in London, Paris, Rome or Amsterdam. Hence the German "Chinabild" (the image of China) that was Hellenic-Christian, Germanic, and thus... chinesenfrei (chinesefree). Best! T
I agree - your books opened my eyes to Shengren. I was discussing the confused communication of the Chinese elite with the China-based influencer Shaun Rein. China isn't really a Marxist state and the economist Michael Hudson says that to lecture in China he was told that mentioning the fact that he was an ideological Marxist, his father was a Marxist political prisoner, or preaching ideological Marxism in China could see his jigs in China cancelled and himself deported and banned. But there is endless veneration of the Sabbattean Messianic charlatan and British intelligence asset Marx and Marxism in China. Shaun Rein said that he himself has tried to impress on the Chinese elite the fact that most westerners today loath Communism and the Chinese government propaganda stating that the Chinese government was Communist and democractic at the same time may mean something meaningful to the Chinese but seems laughable to the average westerners and all those people who think their governments are democracies because they have routine elections. Instead of describing their civilisation through their own terms and explaining it to the world the Chinese are bending themselves backward to fit their terms into western hegelian ideological formats thinking that the white man is impressed by it. Overall only a weakening of Judeo-Romano-Germanic elite financial and political power through war (possible), revolution (unlikely) or sheer economic intellectual and cultural degeneration (ongoing) will let the Chinese see beyond the 'magical white western world' and think in their own terms. I believe when the post-80s born generation of Chinese find their footing in the party and start to control it the new narrative will emerge. The post 80s and 90s nationalist generation of China are the most contemptuous and adversarial anti-semetic and anti-western group of people in the world. Sensing this emerging situation is why the David Goldmans and Frank Gaffneys of this world have moved on from annihilate the worlds Muslims (which is 50% achieved) to the nuke China now platform.
Wonderful comment, Samuel. Many thanks! Shaun Rein is a force of nature and he could have been a New York Times - Economist - Harvard - Asian Society ... super sayan type of China experts godfigures -in the 2010s. But he was not chosen to be a Chosen by the Foreign Correspondences tribe, probably for his dissent and pro-China choices. History will tell.
With all the Goldmans and Gaffneys and Blinkens in the world, I share the (late) realization that the Chinese, although large in numbers, do not possess the same or comparable creational power of the Jews or Americans or Europeans. As a German, I always feel slightly embarassed when the Chinese expert socialists in Beijing explain to me their Ancient Society by quoting Marx and Lenin.
That, and of course,... the Mandarins now live in the Year 2023 of our Lord, Jesus Christ, and their venerable shengren are now just biblical saints or greek philosophers. So lame! China brings nothing unique or original to humanity except those annoying "Democracy with Chinese Characteristics" or "The Chinese Dream" plagiats. If the rulers in Beijing hired Shaun Rein Consulting, he would outperform Cultural China in 12 months.
I also understand the Chinese, though. They are coming from a place of hurting. They are traumatized from 400 years of Western humiliation. If they really chose to go totally Confucian, Buddhist, or Taoist against the muderous West... well... they would get annihilate like Mesoamerica, Africa, North America, Germany, Japan, the Muslim world. When they West announced, repeatedly, the "End of History" (Kant, Hegel, Fukuyama...), what they really meant to the non-Western world was: "We are going to end you!"
I am dead serious. The West banned China's Confucius Institutes when it surfaced that Beijing wanted to teach the correct Chinese terms. The West banned all Chinese names. If China still wants back into World History, the West will, must prepare for War. And this is what seems to be happening now in the South China Sea.
Yes, the Chinese shengren are closer to the pre-Socratean sophists than the Greco-Hellenic philosophers. They were less systematic (Philosophers need to build philosophical systems) but more flexible. Plato and et al hated the sophists, Athens expelled them, the Romans ended them. No more sophists or wisecracks. From now on, only philosophers and saints. Something like that. Never happened in China, though. In China, we still have a living shengren culture. T
"Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet ... " If I'm not mistaken, the most ancient Chinese word for, White Man, means literally in their language, "The Newcomer" or "The Late Arriver". This was in deference to the fact that the white race is the youngest on planet earth. Only an idiot would believe that the different races all stemmed from one man and one woman. Great post, Thurston, very interesting.
Don’t let the builders of the Third Temple see this
Thank you for this.
This is very Platonic. Did the Confucianists have any way to learn about the Greeks? I love the parallels between eastern philosophy and Platonism. Way to go, Dr. Pattberg!
Is Pattberg real or deepfaked?
Many people misread Dr. Pattberg’s position. He never argued for finding better translations of Chinese concepts. Instead, he asserted that they are impossible to translate, equating translation with linguistic imperialism.
This is where all the cool people on the Internet hangout 🕊
Thank you very much for this one, Mr. Pattberg!
Redefine China Studies, with T J Pattberg!
Mao believed 'everyone should do their fair share of the work' when millions of people were forced out of their homes and away from loved ones to work on the land. This was actually… very creative!
They are teaching the young in china how we added a thousand years to history in the west by making the I into a one 1 when the letters I and j were added to the alphabet in 1542 when the letter I stood for isheua the work of the Russian Formeko the phantom time hypothesis, And about Tartaria and how it fell and how Peter the great of Russia changed the year from 7207 to 1700 , In the leaked speech of general Chi Hoating he lays out their great leap out from a country that is poisoned by pollution not to Taiwan but Australia, Canada and New Zealand total population of all 3 countries 70 million, with the western military dropping like flies we could well be deleted from history very soon
Good morning, George! I got myself ready for the day with fruit loaf and coffee and phantom time reading lists (D D Hoffman, Chris Langan, and myself, J J Goldstein of course.) Thanks, and All the best! T
I walked into a weeing contest between the 3 letter agencies of the east and west one night doctor unknowingly and got treated to a 12 minute to video of their plans and how badly the Chinese were treated in America while building the railroad, And the way they were treated by the British in the opium wars all with accompanying photographs of these horrors, I understand why the election was taken from trump as prepare for war and their build up of the military with lines of super soldiers like the clone army in star wars but more menacing to view , Never let the swear word take you alive doctor
Kensington avenue Philadelphia doctor is some sight to behold on YouTube as are a few cities in Canada and London,
Do you think it is possible that Germany and the EU in form of NATO coalition is going to fight in the Taiwan Straits any time soon? German troops in Northern Afghanistan once stared down Chinese border troops. That was in 2003 at Hindukutsch. No media reported it. It was too clownish.
Merry Christmas! 🥮
Colonialism isn't pretty and the missionaries are not here to help. That seems to be takeaway from this story. I wonder if our new masters are taking away the proper names in America too, once this shitshow is over. I mean, come on. They call themselves Jews and Philosophers in Jamestown. The whole Latin New World mundus narrative by Vespucci was BS.
Watch: T J Pattberg videocontroversy exlained
Best answer I ever got, from a Harvard Professor (of Dutch origin): "Well, they can call Confucius whatever they like!" He was right, and I was... baffled to no end. All theories on names, Frege, Mill, Sears, Wittgenstein... go out of the window with an attitude or colonial mindset. In this book, I describe some of the most outrages translation of "shengren" by some really famous yet very exccentric European fellows that had it all planned out and even sexually charged... to deny China her true names and stuff her up with the Europeanthing. BLAH! T
China doesn't want to talk about her "hundred years of humiliation" because it was more like four centuries! 😵
Yes, once they were in, they couldn't be expelled. That said, there were good missionaries and bad missionaries. Many turned sinophile and dressed in Confucian gaunts and mimiced the travelling educators. Others were more entrepreneurial, hustled for patronage from the West, and mingled with the foreign offices and the diplomats (premodern spies). Frankly, China didn't know what was going on, and had no way of knowing what was going on back in the West. All the information that the missionaries gathered and sent back home... were duely processed into China Studies (Sinology, in Europe), and whatever China meant was now controlled and written from the remove, in London, Paris, Rome or Amsterdam. Hence the German "Chinabild" (the image of China) that was Hellenic-Christian, Germanic, and thus... chinesenfrei (chinesefree). Best! T
I agree - your books opened my eyes to Shengren. I was discussing the confused communication of the Chinese elite with the China-based influencer Shaun Rein. China isn't really a Marxist state and the economist Michael Hudson says that to lecture in China he was told that mentioning the fact that he was an ideological Marxist, his father was a Marxist political prisoner, or preaching ideological Marxism in China could see his jigs in China cancelled and himself deported and banned. But there is endless veneration of the Sabbattean Messianic charlatan and British intelligence asset Marx and Marxism in China. Shaun Rein said that he himself has tried to impress on the Chinese elite the fact that most westerners today loath Communism and the Chinese government propaganda stating that the Chinese government was Communist and democractic at the same time may mean something meaningful to the Chinese but seems laughable to the average westerners and all those people who think their governments are democracies because they have routine elections. Instead of describing their civilisation through their own terms and explaining it to the world the Chinese are bending themselves backward to fit their terms into western hegelian ideological formats thinking that the white man is impressed by it. Overall only a weakening of Judeo-Romano-Germanic elite financial and political power through war (possible), revolution (unlikely) or sheer economic intellectual and cultural degeneration (ongoing) will let the Chinese see beyond the 'magical white western world' and think in their own terms. I believe when the post-80s born generation of Chinese find their footing in the party and start to control it the new narrative will emerge. The post 80s and 90s nationalist generation of China are the most contemptuous and adversarial anti-semetic and anti-western group of people in the world. Sensing this emerging situation is why the David Goldmans and Frank Gaffneys of this world have moved on from annihilate the worlds Muslims (which is 50% achieved) to the nuke China now platform.
Wonderful comment, Samuel. Many thanks! Shaun Rein is a force of nature and he could have been a New York Times - Economist - Harvard - Asian Society ... super sayan type of China experts godfigures -in the 2010s. But he was not chosen to be a Chosen by the Foreign Correspondences tribe, probably for his dissent and pro-China choices. History will tell.
With all the Goldmans and Gaffneys and Blinkens in the world, I share the (late) realization that the Chinese, although large in numbers, do not possess the same or comparable creational power of the Jews or Americans or Europeans. As a German, I always feel slightly embarassed when the Chinese expert socialists in Beijing explain to me their Ancient Society by quoting Marx and Lenin.
That, and of course,... the Mandarins now live in the Year 2023 of our Lord, Jesus Christ, and their venerable shengren are now just biblical saints or greek philosophers. So lame! China brings nothing unique or original to humanity except those annoying "Democracy with Chinese Characteristics" or "The Chinese Dream" plagiats. If the rulers in Beijing hired Shaun Rein Consulting, he would outperform Cultural China in 12 months.
I also understand the Chinese, though. They are coming from a place of hurting. They are traumatized from 400 years of Western humiliation. If they really chose to go totally Confucian, Buddhist, or Taoist against the muderous West... well... they would get annihilate like Mesoamerica, Africa, North America, Germany, Japan, the Muslim world. When they West announced, repeatedly, the "End of History" (Kant, Hegel, Fukuyama...), what they really meant to the non-Western world was: "We are going to end you!"
I am dead serious. The West banned China's Confucius Institutes when it surfaced that Beijing wanted to teach the correct Chinese terms. The West banned all Chinese names. If China still wants back into World History, the West will, must prepare for War. And this is what seems to be happening now in the South China Sea.
T
Confucianism is not a religion. It is actually closer to sophistry. The Confucianists were educators and moralists.
Yes, the Chinese shengren are closer to the pre-Socratean sophists than the Greco-Hellenic philosophers. They were less systematic (Philosophers need to build philosophical systems) but more flexible. Plato and et al hated the sophists, Athens expelled them, the Romans ended them. No more sophists or wisecracks. From now on, only philosophers and saints. Something like that. Never happened in China, though. In China, we still have a living shengren culture. T
"Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet ... " If I'm not mistaken, the most ancient Chinese word for, White Man, means literally in their language, "The Newcomer" or "The Late Arriver". This was in deference to the fact that the white race is the youngest on planet earth. Only an idiot would believe that the different races all stemmed from one man and one woman. Great post, Thurston, very interesting.
Thanks! Now begins the jolly season! Hope you are doing fine! Take care, and All the Best! T